The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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>> Good morning. Can you hear me? Good morning. Thank you very much for being here. My name is Marie Humeau. I'm working at the Dutch Mission. I'm very happy to be your moderator beyond borders.
Actually the entire idea behind this session is really to look on how we can work with the diplomatic technical community on those efforts and example of the critical infrastructure.
Through this concrete example we would like to look at the different region. We have esteemed experts in our panel to help us glide through how it is working today, and diplomatic community are addressing the threats they're facing and how in the future we should really endorse those relation to make those environments more resilient.
As you know there is malicious activity targeting critical infrastructure. Importantly those activities can have spillover effects. We really need to work on fostering resilience and cyber resilience. For this we need to build capacity and increase collaboration and really this relation between diplomatic and community is key. At the moment we are still working in silos and have seen some changes in the past. We're hoping with our experts on the panel from their perspective they have tried to address those issues and have tried to bridge the gap between the technical and diplomatic community. We will guide you through three different themes. Just so you are aware before we start there is a journey that we're going to have together.
We will first look at the cyber threats and then the policy response that we have now. Then the opportunities for a greater collaboration.
So on the panel that I'm very pleased to moderate we have Mr. Orhan Osmani at the cybersecurity ITU Communication Union and telecommunication and cyber activities. We have security agency of Malaysia. She has a specific role. She is sitting in a technical agency but also following lots of UN development and discussion. She is I would say how you can make the link between the technical and diplomatic community.
We will also have Dr. Partnership. We also have Franziska Klopfer. She works at DCAF the center for security center governance. She is the principal project manager for cybersecurity governance. She works a lot in the western back‑end. We already have different perspective, and we know how crucial it is to work together. It is interesting to see if there are some differences in the approach that are being adopted in the different region.
Then finally we have Ms. She is like an expert on those issues. She will provide us with a great theme setter before we all dive into the discussion.
Then because the panel wouldn't be finalized without cybersecurity expertise, and she will help us make the most out of the discussion and everything that we will hear in the next hour. Those are my panelist. We will together go through this journey on where we are and what has been done and how to do better and improve our work together.
Like I said we will follow our three step approach. We will start with going through the ICT framework and how this three are really targeting critical infrastructure and targeting cybersecurity.
For this I'm going to ask to give us a scene setter about what are the different components of critical infrastructure that facilitate the provision of essential services across borders. What are the issues with the jurisdiction, but also what kind of type of stress and how you've seen the evolution of the landscape.
Also how can those malicious activities actually impact international peace and security. The floor is for you to give us a bit of background. Thank you.
>> Thank you so much. These are very important questions.
While critical infrastructure does vary across jurisdiction there is this broad recognition of certain sectors as critical or as important. This includes energy transportation, telecommunications, commercial and financial assistance among other things. Many of these sectors provide essential services across borders. For example, transnational pipelines have national and regional and international levels. Critical information infrastructure in particular refers to information and communication systems and networks boost disruption or damage severely impact societal functions. These types of infrastructure include cables, satellite systems and data centers. All of which support critical information and communication services across multiple states. For the interest of time I will focus on sub C cables and satellite systems. If you are interested in the cloud you can see a report on this topic shortly. Please check out our website.
It is no exaggeration that cables form the background of global communication. They transmit 95% of data traffic. They enable reliable efficient cost effective data transfers between data centers globally which supports cloud services that we are all benefitting from. However these cables are particularly vulnerable to physical threats. According to the international cable committee each year perfectly 150 to 200 cable folds happen primarily to human activity such as fishing and anchoring. Digitally cable infrastructure also faces cyber risks. This include potential hacking of the remote network management systems use for monitoring and managing cable activities.
Satellite systems also play a very critical role in global communication. They provide internet connectivity in, you know, like large areas of the globe. Particularly in remote and underserved areas. However, over recent years disruption assets are becoming increasingly common. Potential threats are denial of service attacks. Command injection, malware and signal interference and damage to the satellite components.
In terms of the evolving threat landscape a tech on the critical infrastructure and critical information infrastructure can disrupt essential cross border services with increased complexity and impact. This challenge is especially pronounced in the increasingly digitalized world where such attention, especially those targeting critical information infrastructure, including the relevant ICT supply chains, and making such actions, you know, thus making this type of infrastructure a compelling target for attackers.
Additionally, the transnational nature of this infrastructure as for the complexity for its protection making international collaboration a very essential element of effective safeguards and responses. I know we will delve into this further. Now I will turn to the international securities of malicious activities targeting transnational CI or CII critical infrastructure and critical information infrastructure.
While I don't know how familiar you are with, you know, the ongoing on the UN on cybersecurity. Ongoing UN open work or OEWG annual program reports emphasize that malicious ICT target critical infrastructure and critical infrastructure can have cascading effects at national, regional, and international levels.
Such activities can pose heightened risks to populations across region and escalate. In particular the OEWG highlighted the need to secure cables and satellite communication networks and activities that could cause significant disruption and damage to telecommunications and also potentially a fact to technical infrastructure essential to the availability and integrity of the internet in large areas of the globe.
In conflict as a means to disrupt adversaries communications. For instance at the beginning of the first World War One of the British militaries first moves was actually to sever cables. Today they have become increasingly complex and interconnected. Transmitting mass volume of data for both military and civilian purposes. They post significant race to global connectivity and also international security.
Attribution challenges is very difficult to determine who is behind the cable damages. This could lead to accusations and potentially escalating tensions between states, even when the disruption may in fact be unintentional. In the current environment of geopolitical tensions national securities surrounding sub C cables can drive further technological competitions over cable ownership, construction, and landing points. With important implications for global and also regional stability. Furthermore, satellite systems also play a very vital role in conflict and supporting functions, including communication, navigation, and also intelligence and gathering and critical operations and thus making increasing the likelihood of such actions in had conflict scenarios. Moreover due to the nature of satellite services cyber-attacks can have far reaching consequences. This can be far beyond the parties and affect civilian and civilian services across sectors. I will stop here Marie and back to you.
>> MARIE HUMEAU: Thank you very much, Wenting. I would like to ask my panelist. I know we prepared questions. If you feel the willingness to interrupt or ask other questions tore complement what is being said please feel free. We're looking thank you in the screen. Wave and we will give you the floor accordingly. Always more interesting when everybody can participate.
Maybe I will now turn first to Rashidah. Maybe you can give us a bit of your perspective actually from are the Asia‑Pacific region and what kinds of threats you are experiencing on critical infrastructure and the potential of cyber-attacks on national and regional level. The floor is yours Rashidah. I know you are not on the same time zone.
>> SHARIFFAH RASHIDAH: Thank you very much. Currently it is prayer time in Malaysia. Currently I can proceed or wait one minute for this to end if this is okay for all of you.
>> MARIE HUMEAU: As you prefer. Honestly, it is part of the journey. If you want to do it now please feel free. The sound is good on our side.
>> SHARIFFAH RASHIDAH: All right. Of course let me just, it is okay if I just wait. It is quite very loud here. I will continue after this. Thank you very much. I'm sorry.
>> MARIE HUMEAU: I see Towela Nyirenda‑Jere is online. I can see if you can share your perspective. She will need permission to speak.
>> TOWELA NYIRENDA-JERE: Good morning. Good afternoon.
>> MARIE HUMEAU: Now it is working. We can hear you. Yes.
>> TOWELA NYIRENDA-JERE: My apologies. I have been struggling on the connection. I can join you all.
>> MARIE HUMEAU: We can hear you. Now we can see you. Perfect. Thank you for joining us Towela. Maybe you can give us from your experience and African energy sector.
>> TOWELA NYIRENDA-JERE: Thank you very much. Good morning and afternoon to you as well. I'm joining you from Ethiopia. For those that may not know I am currently now leading the Africa EU energy partnership which looks at promoting collaboration between the two continents on issues relating to energy and transition. I think in terms of the topic of critical infrastructure in Africa and maybe being very specific in terms of the energy sector I think one of the things that is very evident perhaps is that within the ICT ecosystem and critical infrastructure are well‑known and well discussed. Perhaps in energy the conversation is very different. At the same time it needs to be brought perhaps to the same level as the discussions that we are having in the digital space.
When you look at Africa's energy landscape currently of course we know that 55 other states and five geographic regions and each have their own systems and ways to connecting and interconnecting and powers that exist. We know there is an effort to look at interconnecting the entire continent by really putting in the relevant infrastructure that would connect countries and then regions. At the same time looking at the harmonization elements that would make that possible. The whole idea is to be able to facilitate the flow of energy across the continent and beyond in terms of meeting Africa's energy needs and also have excess capacity outwards. What this means is there is a lot of emphasis put in the interconnections across border and boundaries. When we start talking about connection and the idea that we need some form of smart writ to be able to manage this whole system and issues around being able to then define critical infrastructure in the energy sector become important because border links are critical and being so far as making the system work. At the same time, the aspects of cybersecurity around how we secure are very important. These are the things that at the previous job we had looked at as we were developing this continental master plan. One of the recommendation we made from the very beginning to incorporate the understanding of cybersecurity and the need to make sure within the energy sector we were also looking at developing adequate capacities in terms of cybersecurity.
I think where we are now as a continent there hasn't yet been any kind of overarching framework in so far as critical infrastructure from an energy perspective. That is one of the things that we will start looking at now. Different countries of course have some policies that are looking at critical infrastructure. Africa is a good example. Kenya is a good example. The idea is to learn from these experiences and regional frameworks and have a continental framework and critical infrastructure from the energy sector. Back to you, Marie.
>> MARIE HUMEAU: Thank you very much, Towela.
As you said the more you interconnect with the critical infrastructures and the energy the more also you will need each other to make sure that those cyber threats do not affect your network as well. Thank you very much for sharing your initial perspective. Maybe now I think Rashidah you can provide your perspective from the Asia‑Pacific. Thank you very much.
>> SHARIFFAH RASHIDAH: Thank you very much, Marie for the introductions. I want to thank for setting the scene and giving the perspectives of the ongoing perspective off the OEWG and the development and critical infrastructure. Also to allow and explain in terms of how energy sector is important and the initiative that has been done.
Earlier Marie introduced me. I came from an organization that is cybersecurity. I want to acknowledge that this is an opportunity and benefits that I got from the women in Cyber Fellows. I think they are facilitating this hosting and facilitating this event. Because of that it actually makes me understand and also a learning experience as well in terms of connecting between the importance of how national levels needs to implement the framework of responsible state behavior and how best we can do that in actionable item or actionable action.
Coming back to the questions earlier regarding critical infrastructure sectors across border in Asia‑Pacific region. I think earlier two things, which is the sub C cables as well as the satellite systems. I think it is global to any other region of the world. One thing that I also want to connect and relate what actually happened in national level and Towela specified is actually on energy. One is, we hear earlier, depending on the country what means the critical infrastructure. The critical infrastructure does not exist in volume. What actually define the country or the country's importance. In Malaysia we define critical infrastructure 11th sector. In the cybersecurity act we define it as a computer or computer system with destruction or destruction of delivery of any services essential of the security defense, economy, public health, public safety, or ability of the Federal Government or any of the State's government to carry out its function effectively.
The intersection they exist vertically and horizontally. In terms of horizontally, for example, energy. Regardless how strong the sub C cable or how strong our satellite systems, if energy is out you cannot even operate the cyber environment. That is how the importance of interdependency of critical infrastructure. Depending on which part of the world you are, if the energy comes from water hydro water becomes the important things of the country and goes back to what is the resource of the energy.
Coming back to how actually we developed or how actually Asia‑Pacific and how and why actually specifically in Asia how we put the importance of critical infrastructure in Asia we actually has produced Asia cyber course strategy where in the strategy one of the dimension it says about advancing cyber readiness and where two important things being put. One is the coordination and recently we established and launched our Asia regional and together with all Asia member states.
Secondly the focus is coordination on CII coordination. In a nutshell, the discussions happening in the UN complements the work that we do in national level. Being organization that do both, we actually work together with our ministry in foreign affair and see how these things can actually interconnected, interdependency and reflect not only in national level, regional level, and at the global level apparently. I will stop here.
>> MARIE HUMEAU: Thank you very much, Rashidah. Thank you for sharing your personal experience as well. I think you are a good example on how the technical community in the diplomatic community as well as we should look at the national and regional level all together. I think you made a great point of those different approaches. As well as one important point and how UN and national level and that is an important point in each and every one of us to better understand what critical infrastructure on top of what we have been discussing at international level.
Maybe we will move on in our journey to actually what you mentioned Rashidah was your national experience I think and your regulatory framework is actually a perfect path to the next step in our journey and really looking at the policy responses and lessons learned from root practices on sections of critical infrastructure. I saw you and things that you did like popping into our screen and we have here. I feel like it is time for you to step in many and then to tell a bit more of how to strengthen the critical infrastructure. Is there a scope for the technical community to work together and mitigate.
>> ORHAN OSMANI: Thank you, Marie. Good morning to everyone. It is a pleasure to be on this panel. As you question points is there a scope between diplomatic and community to work together to mitigate this, I think where there is a will there is a way. I stand by that. What we need to do basically is probably we need to take a step back on national level connect these two communities.
We see huge gaps between diplomatic and technical community together. That blocks collaboration in the international level. If we are clear in international level and diplomatic I think we can basically strengthen collaboration and we can work together towards an understanding that, you know, some of the critical infrastructure that serve the essential services in the country need to be protected. They must be projected. You know we are talk about people who are now, more and more people are in medical devices and life supporting devices. Any energy attack it attacks those devices and keeping people alive. We need to really have compassion towards those people and promote more. What is at risk there?
Besides, I heard mainly focusing on state‑to‑state challenges that have and also we have a big group of those that are making money and cyber criminals making money. It is a big industry, and cyber threats are a national disaster around the world. I think we need more and more collaboration in technical community and diplomatic community. Also what we need to work more is attribution. This is my personal view. I see the attributions happen quickly. To attribute and attack you have to be challenging. You need to have more evidence. You need to spend more time to ensure that the attribution is correct. When you attribute something to someone and is mistrue and challenges is how to work together.
We need to work more on capacity developments. Often I go to the term capacity building. There is no capacity. We need to continue to delve, and all the regions have capacity. Probably we need to change the language and how we approach. Another to protection to critical infrastructure and if community and member states work together in terms of collaborating and kind of coordinating and aligning each other and how we can work together and basically you know support the endowment of the world. We are having all this national and transnational conflict. I think something which is coming after all the world is the climate change.
We need to promote more of actually what is happening to us as a world and probably, you know, the political tensions will reduce and work better on cybersecurity and other challenges we face as a world. Probably this is my input. I don't know. Let's see how the conversation goes, and I will add and chip in with other views. Thank you.
>> MARIE HUMEAU: Thank you, Orhan. It is about strengthening our capacity. Also I think indeed that the language between the technical and diplomatic community we don't speak the same language. It is also about strengthening our common understanding about each other and learning how to speak the language of the other so you can work better together as well.
Thank you very much for this perspective. I think we will now in our journey throughout the world jump into the western region with Franziska. You have been working in the community and you have helped set up informal networks and it is about getting to know each other and sharing information. I think that is related to what Orhan was saying on the need to build our capacity and better exchange information.
Can you tell us a bit more about how networks and technical experts help project the critical trance national critical infrastructure?
>> FRANZISKA KLOPFER: Thank you very much, Marie. Hello, everyone. Very pleased to see you again.
Indeed we have my organization for GENEVA. We have been working for quite some time in the region in Europe. One of the areas that we work with is organizing regions for national cert and long‑term process in communication and trust. It led to what one has described an informal network and staffs communicate. I want to kind of take up on what previous speakers have said. There is a lot that can be done by different communities. I think it is important to see the potential of the technical communities and also get involved in transnational and international processes. I think it is very important to then go back to see what is happening in the national level.
They cannot work in the vacuum or do with diplomacy in the vacuum. They are part of a national structure where I think have, for example, they have a very interesting role that they can play. They are usually in countries either the National Security Agencies in supporting and coordinating critical infrastructure or critical infrastructure. They are there to support and help and enforce cybersecurity standards and also to exchange information. Information we might have received from friendly neighbors on cyber threats. I think this cannot be done in a vacuum or outside of diplomatic processes as you know. When we talk quite a bit about agreements and, you know, bilateral or regional or coordination between different countries and protecting of CII. I think we know there are different actors involved and diplomatic community and they can come in with their expertise. It is very important that in a country the roles of diplomats and other actors are clearly defined. It is clear the role they're playing in the process of protecting critical infrastructure and that it is also clear how they coordinate and communicate with each other. As it is mentioned I think this is a big problem. You have actors working on similar topics, but there is no clarity about when they and how they should cooperate. They don't meet in regular meetings.
I think that is one of the areas. When we talk about also capacity building or capacity development that we should not see these different actors in isolation. Part of the capacity development is to strengthen and clarify roads and responsibilities and strengthen between those stakeholder groups in the national level.
>> MARIE HUMEAU: Thank you, Franziska the capacity in the national level at first and that is better engagement in regional and international level. Everything is one step at a time and start with strengthening at the national level of collaboration in the technical and diplomatic community.
Maybe I will move back to Towela. Look at from your perspective on the Africa's and sectors. Can you share practices and examples at your level and at the level and what kind of further steps do you think government and industry stakeholders in the region can take to better protect at the energy infrastructure? I think it is always good to have a look at concrete sectors. Towela the floor is yours.
>> TOWELA NYIRENDA-JERE: Thank you very much. The critical infrastructure is prioritized differently within member stakes and regions and I think to all the point in capacity building and enhancing and going further in terms of capacity endowments and looking more at very deliberate strategies are very important points.
I've been turning to the case of Africa and good practice and trying to do a bit of balancing act between the sector and all the other infrastructure sectors as well.
I did one thing that I would side as good practice, and this is also to Rashidah point and the way that Africa works and is structured is the idea of being able to foster and promote a region cooperation and region. That makes it easier when we now want to start implementing different policy frameworks if there is some way when there is a bit of harmonization, and they are involved, and you have utilities in the national levels. You have the power polls and private sector entities that are responsible for grid development and Africa union as well. The need for balanced cascading corporation both from top going down and also from the bottom going up. Being able to structure this in a way that makes sense I think is important. For the energy sector I think Africa has managed to do this in a very way by bringing together all these different actors around look at the sector critically and identify the different areas and harmonize and corporation frameworks.
We now look very specifically at the issues of cybersecurity. I think we're all aware that the Africa union entered into force and sets a very good framework in terms of how the continent wants to approach issues of cybersecurity, issues of privacy, issues of data protection. I think what is important as we move forward is making sure that this convention is seen not as an ICT instrument or an ICT device, that it really has importance across the entire infrastructure landscape and obviously beyond when you start looking at just general issues of people's day‑to‑day lives as well.
To the point about capacity and the capacity endowments, really when we now look at how we operationalize the cybersecurity convention very important that we're not losing sight into the addition of the digital cyber experts, if I can call them that. We need to make sure that our experts that are managing our different utilities, whether it is in water, energy, and those that are managing our other infrastructure in terms of transport and water sector they're all equipped with the understanding of cybersecurity measures and also that there is some element of coordination and cooperation across different sectors within countries at the regional level and also at the other level as well.
Lastly, in terms of the practice I think they mention this a little bit. Just the idea of providing the framework where one can actually have a way in which to match the capacity in terms of cyber capacity building and linking that into where expertise and experts lie and being able to make those connections and offer that platform that has expertise and networks and regions and countries so as to enhance the cybersecurity posturing across the globe. Back to you, Marie.
>> MARIE HUMEAU: Thank you, Towela. You share best practices across sectors. That the cooperation need not only to happen between the technical and diplomatic community but also across sectors. The more we get connected the more we rely on each one sector rely on the other. Also I think each sector can learn from the best practice of the other. I think you point out your best practice from the energy sector. I'm pretty sure that a lot of other sectors can learn how you're trying to put them together and be able to share better of the information to make your infrastructure also more resilient. I think that is exactly what we're trying to do here. I can see on the screen one thing that there is already willingness to exchange information of what everyone is doing. That is the objective. We need to share our experience here and connect and continue that discussion also after this session.
I'm quite excited about what I see on my screen only left I can say. It is not only happening in the room.
Maybe we will guide you through the next step in our journey. It is nearly our final stop. We will then open the floor to everyone to ask questions.
Apparently someone wants to take the floor. Yes, Rashidah. Please do.
>> SHARIFFAH RASHIDAH: I want to connect and give response to response to Franziska's view and Towela. Franziska mentioned the importance of structuring and position while we're talking about the technical community and sets and giving them a proper place at the national level as well as how to what Towela mentions and being sure that things are connected in such a way. This is the experience that we took in terms of making sure the discussions between the technical people and diplomat as well as the people that look into the policy at national level. While we are developing the enforce last August this is also the experience that we got from the exposure, from the learning curve that we got from the OEWG and other activities that we see at national level as well as regional level. Specifically on the cert part. Currently we have the chief executive of my organization has the responsibility to maintain the national Cyber Coordination and Common Center that is our national CERT and give the importance of designation and national critical infrastructure with the processes they are notification and swiftly being done at national level. This complements the work and development that is happening at national level. Whether national CERT is also being submitted at the UNOEWT and the global final contact. This is the learning curve that our country takes in understanding and connecting the dots and discussion with the technical people and policy people in the domestic level as well as the diplomat that works at the United Nations.
The other part is the opportunity that we have in terms of capacity building where one of the things that we manage to work together especially with UNIDIR and national level we get a blessing from the management to do that and we will develop and institutionalize and training the diplomat before they're stationed internationally and cyber diplomacy and the people they face to go overseas have the clear understanding on when to connect the dots and how actually they can bring back the discussion they see and negotiate at any platform bilaterally or multilaterally at any organization that are national cyber national level. Thank you.
>> MARIE HUMEAU: Thank you very much, Rashidah. Indeed it is important to know who to contact and who those points of contacts are. Key and crucial. The training of diplomat is an amazing one. I'm pleased that our co-organizer today are being mentioned by you on their best practices. I think you are doing lots to strengthen those capacity as well. The women in cyber you can see we have quite a panel with lots of women. It is nice to see this because that is not always the case. Thank you for bring balance in this discussion as well.
Maybe, yes. No sign from the virtual room.
Maybe we will, yeah. Maybe we will step in our last topic before I give the floor to everyone in with some questions.
Maybe we will step in for the future. Where we are heading next step in many our journey.
Maybe Franziska you want to start with what are the opportunities for greater cooperation? Do you see, I think you started answering that question a bit already. Do you see ways to improve and to set a mechanism to better be prepared and equipped for those greater collaboration? That includes the role for the community in those discussion.
>> FRANZISKA KLOPFER: Yes. I think we've spoken quite a lot on this already. I will keep it short and practical step. Rashidah mentioned it. First step is we need training of cyber diplomats. One of the most understanding things is make them aware of what is happening in their country. Who is in their country? Who do they need to consult? This is the international discussions and including discussions on CII.
Also engage with the multi‑stakeholder communities and identify and work with CII. I think I will leave it at that with the interest of time. Two first practical steps I will recommend to take.
>> MARIE HUMEAU: Thank you. I think we are like running, we only have a few minutes left.
What I will do if that is fine I will look at the room and see if there are pressing questions coming from the room. Yes. I see a gentleman at the back. Excuse me. Mic. Yes, please. Thank you. It is coming from you. A mic.
>> Hello. Yes. I'm from South Korea. I am curious to know how many of you, I guess that you're coming from each of you are coming from different countries. How many of you have seen policy documents that actually addresses transnational critical information infrastructure and talk about whether your government is allowed to or planning to attack in many case of emergency or in case of contingencies? Especially if you have seen any documents published by the administration. Is your country, especially the military department, allowed to take into consideration the possibility they would be able to attack critical information structures in other countries?
>> MARIE HUMEAU: Is there any question on the chat? We will take your question. We have two minutes left. We will have the speakers to answer your question and have final remarks to wrap it up and do the photo album of our journey together.
Maybe I will give you the floor one by one. You can address the question that has been asked. Also you can bring us a bit of your and Franziska you did. What are the regional and international level for greater collaboration and also what can stakeholder bring to the table in in terms of the protection of critical infrastructure and the importance of actually this multi‑stakeholder cooperation that is needed to be better equipped and have a more resilient infrastructure?
Maybe I will start at the bottom right with Orhan and Towela and Franziska.
>> ORHAN OSMANI: I think the question of the gentleman, obviously I don't have an answer. We keep supporting members to build a capacity. We folks focus on global south. We are trying to bridge the gaps and meetings and have discussion among them. In in principle and all I don't have an answer for him in that regard. It all comes down to collaboration, information sharing. Countries that are aligned don't share all information. Quite a lot needs to be done. We need to work around that. The opportunities are there to increase collaboration, but are we going to take and take action on really putting the citizen at the center? I think what is happening now is we are putting at the center other things, but if you put the citizen at the center, those that need and benefit to the services and contribute back to the society I think quite a lot of things can be solved. I'm idealistic in that regard. I'm not sure what will work the best. We keep continuing to work together and global south and building the capacity needed.
We help women in cyber through membership and capacity building and so on a lot to be done. Honestly, a lot to be done. We need to sit down as delving agencies and partners and stakeholders and delving capacities. We need to sit down and decide who is going to be doing what. A lot of duplication agencies are happening in net areas. Limited in terms of financial and human. I think, you know, it can be done a lot if there is a will to sit down and lower our egos and work together.
>> MARIE HUMEAU: Thanks. A lot needs to be said and done. We are also pressured with time.
I will give you each of you 15 seconds and then wrap up. I'm really sorry. Maybe we can have another session in IGF for another discussion. So much needs to be done and said. We are seeing this taking place now. Maybe Towela you can give us in 15 seconds what we should be doing.
>> TOWELA NYIRENDA-JERE: We see now a lot of infrastructure and whether it is in country or transnational infrastructure. This means then that on the one hand it will be a need for strong are collaboration between private sector and governments and focus on the issue of the protection of that infrastructure. At the same time governments need to then continue to set the container in the relevant policy regulation mechanisms and making sure that these are things that can be implemented and are enabling the protection of the infrastructure and like Orhan said not losing sight of putting people at the center of what we're doing.
>> MARIE HUMEAU: Thank you, Towela. Rashidah. You have 15 seconds.
>> SHARIFFAH RASHIDAH: We touched earlier of OEWG discussions. One of the things that we're doing right now we're in the final OEWG, center of the discussion before next July is to ensure what will be the future permanent mechanism where we want to actually together with all the state to develop permanent mechanism with the UN. This is the important task where we are actually want to position the stakeholder so that they can contribute effectively in the permanent mechanism that we want it to do. One thing that we talked today is energy. We want to talk about energy be sector specific and bring the right stakeholder, bring the right skill then we can sort the right specific question in sector specific problems at that level. It can be escalated at regional and national level. I'm going to stop there.
>> MARIE HUMEAU: Thank you, Rashidah. Franziska.
>> FRANZISKA KLOPFER: Just to add to everything that has been said and go back to the beginning. There is still work to be done to raise awareness of the existence of the national infrastructure. A lot of smaller countries might not be aware of aware of often this critical transnational infrastructure and get engaged with instructions and protections. That is a good step for the very, very beginning still is necessary.
>> MARIE HUMEAU: Thank you, Franziska. I will give my last words to Tereza. I want to thank the panelist for your expertise. This is just the beginning. I will give the floor to Tereza.
>> Tereza: Thank you Marie. We put this together because there is a problem of the lack of understanding of what benefit and involvement of the technical communities with have in the dialogues on this topic. We felt that the multi‑stakeholder and addition to the other multi‑stakeholder at the station. We hope that this hour helped us explore a little on how the technical community can get involved, especially next year in the regulation dialogues. We had great examples from Africa, from Asia, from western concrete challenges and on the national level and critical infrastructure and regional corporation as well. I cannot go to the all details. There is call to action that can shape the continuation of our discussion on this topic.
The first is that we do need to strengthen the collaboration between states and the technical community. We will be able to explore more in detail how more in open‑ended working groups. We do need to build capacities. Especially for developing countries. We have heard the capacity building and capacity development and clarified and discussion to relation to these topics. Another idea that I think we can play with is how to convene multi‑stakeholder dialogues on protecting transnational critical infrastructure, which is something that we will look into and try to come up with some ideas and be it in forms of series and workshops and other initiatives. I will have to stop here because I know we are over.
>> MARIE HUMEAU: Thank you and have a good day. Thank you so much.